Dr. Dre and Jimmy Iovine Think A.I. Is Good for Music
The hit-making duo turned tech moguls also have thoughts about why corporate America isn’t collaborative enough.
Jimmy Iovine and Dr. Dre had already spoken three times on the phone by the time I showed up on a recent morning to interview them at Mr. Iovine’s art and memorabilia-filled mansion in Los Angeles.
Mr. Iovine, a record producer from New York, and Dr. Dre, a hip-hop star from California, have been an influential creative force since the 1990s. Mr. Iovine’s Interscope label backed Dr. Dre’s seminal solo albums, and the two later spotted and signed artists like Eminem. Their creative chemistry also hatched Beats by Dre headphones and helped build Apple’s streaming music service after the tech giant acquired their company.
Mr. Iovine’s mind seems to move a mile a minute, bouncing from one idea to the next. Dr. Dre, who joined midway through the interview, comes across as more measured, generally allowing Mr. Iovine to speak first before jumping in.
At one point, Mr. Iovine, 73, tried to describe his relationship with Dr. Dre, 61, using an extended metaphor about the parts of a car. Dr. Dre added his own touch: “Sometimes I’m the gas pedal, sometimes I’m the brakes.”
The taste-making pair’s advice is highly regarded in the industry from their take on trends in culture and technology, as well as the secrets of their long and fruitful partnership.
They have tried to instill some of their lessons with a venture to encourage the next generation of creative entrepreneurs. In 2013, they donated $70 million to the University of Southern California to create a degree program for students that spans technology, design and business. About 800 students have completed the program.
The idea came from Mr. Iovine’s later-in-life executive career, where he saw the fragmented way that corporate America works. The USC Iovine and Young Academy takes a wide-ranging approach, with classes like “Disruptive Innovation” and “Hacker Imagination: From Ancient Greece to Cupertino.” ”
The curriculum aims “to find where design crosses engineering, where business crosses design, and how creativity meshes with all of those,” said Erica Muhl, the inaugural dean of the academy.
More than 100 students graduated from the academy this spring. Companies like Snapchat, Crocs and Duolingo offer students feedback on products and prototypes. Recently, the program has been adapted for high schools.
This expansive approach to thinking has become essential as artificial intelligence upends the workplace, according to Mr. Iovine. “This is the type of learning that advanced companies today need,” he said.
This interview has been edited and condensed.
The Iovine and Young Academy is all about breaking down silos. But corporate America can be rigid. So how effective can the school be?
Iovine: Corporate America is going to have to change.
How?
Iovine: Hire kids from our school. That’s the truth.
But you only graduate about 100 people each year.
Iovine: I don’t think it’s going to transform education in my lifetime, but we’re planting the seeds. We’re speaking to schools as much as we’re speaking to employees. We’re not opening an employment agency.
One of your biggest breakthroughs was creating Beats by Dre, which Apple acquired for $3 billion. What did you learn from that?
Iovine: Marketing is empathy. You have to understand who you’re trying to sell to. Beats was the precursor to the school. What we learned at Beats is we have to be a complete thought.
A lot of companies are engineering societies. Engineers are incredible, but a lot of them need a broader palette to work from.
How does a company do that?
Iovine: It starts at the top, if the leader is the right leader. What we’re trying to do is much more fundamental. We’re trying to change the seeds. We’re trying to change the basics of education, so when people walk into that ground-level job, they already have this instinct and this gift.
It’s the collaboration of different disciplines working together. What technologist doesn’t need to understand culture if they’re really trying to do something? Or design for that matter. These things all work together, but in most companies they’re siloed.
So how do you encourage creativity within a corporate structure?
Iovine: Well, unfortunately, you’re starting out where there’s a lack of communication between design and engineering. They’re not collaborating. You can smell it. It’s all the companies. I don’t see one of them doing it. The closest is Apple. Apple is a great company because Steve’s D.N.A. is still in there.
When someone comes to you with an idea, how do you know if it’s worth pursuing?
Iovine: The first thing I do is not judge the idea. I look at the person. Can this person execute this? I’ve seen a lot of good ideas go in the toilet. Does this person have the drive, discipline, fortitude and character to deliver this all the way?
It’s instinctual. We meet a lot of talented people, like Robert Brunner, who designed the first Beats headphones. I never worked with a designer before. The minute I met him, I knew he was the right guy. How do I know that? I don’t know. I just know he was the right guy — and boy was he.
Do you consider yourself a good manager?
Iovine: No, I see myself as spotting somebody who’s great and working with them until they are as great as they can be.
You lived through the disruption that Napster caused to the music business. Do you see A.I. as a similar threat?
Iovine: I’m very pro-A.I. in music creation. I don’t see the downside at all. There will be some crappy music. There’s crappy music now.
In the studio, when gifted people have A.I., they’re going to make better records.
The A.I. companies have the worst public relations in the history of the world. I don’t know the history of the world, but let’s just put it this way: They have terrible communication skills. That’s why everybody is all up in arms.
[Dr. Dre enters the room.]
Iovine: We’re talking about A.I. He’s the guy to ask.
Dr. Dre: I don’t see it as a threat. I think the only people that see it as a threat are the people who have trouble creating.
Iovine: That’s all you have to know.
Dr. Dre: OK, I can leave now?
Iovine: He’s not kidding about leaving, by the way.
Dr. Dre: I had a discussion with a few people a few days ago. They were against A.I. and I’m like, “OK, you sound like the person that would have been against the drum machine when it came out.” Or synthesizers, right? It’s a new tool for creativity. Some people are afraid of learning new things.
I’m embracing it. I can’t wait to see what’s going to happen with this.
So you’re using A.I. when you’re producing?
Dr. Dre: Yes, I’m using it. Again, as a tool to see what it would do with what I just did.
Iovine: So is Timbaland — another brilliant producer. By the way, there’s a lot of closet A.I. producers out there.
Dr. Dre: That’s a good way to put it. They’re using it, they just don’t want to admit it.
I’ve written about co-chief executives, which can be a tricky way to run a company. Has there ever been a time when you two had a disagreement that you had to work through?
Dr. Dre: All the time. I don’t like the word arguments because that means one or two people are trying to win. We have disagreements, which means we’re trying to get to a solution.
Iovine: We do different things.
Give me an example.
Iovine: We were looking at 10 different headphone designs. We’re talking about it and Dre really liked one, somebody else liked one and I liked two. So Pharrell comes in my office and he goes, “That’s it.” It was the one Dre liked. You think I needed to hear another word about it? That’s how the design was picked.
I can just tell who has a feel for culture.
Dre, how do you create the conditions for creativity to thrive?
Dr. Dre: I like to simplify it. Everybody has the same 16 hours in a day, if you sleep for eight. What am I doing with those 16 hours? I wake up every day thinking about that. I drive myself crazy with that at times.
As I get older, I’m really a lot more conscious about the time I’m spending, who I’m spending it with. I have 40 summers left if I’m lucky. I’m really paying attention to that now.
Do you spend any of that time listening to business podcasts or reading business books?
Dr. Dre: I listen to self-help books.
What’s the most recent one?
Dr. Dre: “The Power of Now.”
And when you think about the corporate world and the world of C.E.O.s…
Dr. Dre: I don’t.
You don’t?
Dr. Dre: I don’t. I’m trying to figure out who I’m going to be next. I’m really excited about the discovery of the next man I’m going to be. I have no idea what that is or who that is, but the unknown is exciting to me.
It’s time for the lightning round. What was the last concert you attended?
Iovine: Lily Allen.
Dr. Dre: I think it was Kendrick.
What’s the last thing you asked A.I.?
Iovine: I do it all day. I’ll look it up and tell you. The last thing I asked was what’s going on with democratic socialism. And another thing I asked was about David Byrne’s set list. And about the absorption of iron in your body and the timing of it. And as far as iron’s concerned, shrimp versus tuna?
Dr. Dre: Mine is so much more simpler than that: How do you put on muscle and lose fat at the same time? That’s it.
Did it give good answers?
Dr. Dre: Nothing that I didn’t already know.
What hours do you sleep? People in the music industry seem to stay up late.
Iovine: Man, I tend to sleep 10 to 7 every night.
Dr. Dre: I go from 8 to 6. And I might take a nap. I’m mad at myself for not taking naps in the last 40 years of my career.
Iovine: Sleep makes you a better person.
Dr. Dre: I’m sleepy now.
What’s your best advice for jet lag?
Iovine: I don’t get jet lagged.
Dr. Dre: I make sure there’s nothing for me to do for at least two days after I land.
What’s the most used app on your phone?
Iovine: ChatGPT and Apple Music.
Dr. Dre: Box. That’s where we listen to all the music that we’re working on.
Which C.E.O.s do you admire?
Iovine: Steve Jobs, Phil Knight, Akio Morita.
Dr. Dre: Mine’s easy. Jimmy Iovine.